I'm with you. If done well, I don't mind character based hint (aka thinking out loud). Nathan Drake is the one protagonist that seems like a good example because he's charismatic, intelligent and is a character that naturally likes to make quips. So of course he would think out loud even if alone which may help the player sus out some puzzle or navigation.
Alternatively, Metroid Prime 4: Beyond was an example of it done completely wrong. Having Miles come over the intercom to let Samus know where she needed to go every 5 minutes was grating and honestly insulting.
No worries - thanks for the great article on Sea of Stars!
And I have yet to play Metroid Prime 4, but I’ve heard basically all the characters outside of Samus actively detract from the experience. Which, like, isn’t the whole appeal of Metroid meant to be how isolating it feels?
There are moments of classic Metroid in the game. And it is beautiful and fun. But yeah there were elements of the game that were either the result of the production taking so long or poor decision making is my guess.
I think it's fine as long as players have the option to diminish it. For example, I was pleasantly surprised that A Plague Tale: Requiem had a setting that would completely eliminate all banter about puzzles while you solved them. It made the game a more more enjoyable experience.
Conversely, I literally didn't finish Horizon: Forbidden West because of how constantly they made Aloy solve the puzzle for you.
"Huh, maybe I should get to that ledge."
"Looks like that block can be moved."
"Maybe I can pull that down?"
SHUT UP! lol
It turned a quirky character trait from the original (always talking to herself cause she basically grew up semi-alone) and turned it into a constant player nudge, and I feel like more and more games keep doing this without the ability to silence it.
I love that A Plague Tale gave you the option. That seems to be the ideal compromise for stuff like this. Because, when done gratuitously like in your Horizon experience, it can literally be a make or break.
Golden Abyss was a masterpiece. I can't believe PlayStation fumbled the Vita so bad. That is still the best handheld console. It was so good. Touch sensing in the back, light sensing through camera, so much cool stuff they did.
Yeah, I think most of the gimmicks work really well with Uncharted’s normal mechanics. Any game that includes gyro aiming is a huge plus in my books. Most of the touch screen stuff is cool - I randomly really like going up and down rope using the rear touch.
Makes you wonder what a God of War or Infamous could’ve looked like on the Vita.
I personally don't mind this kind of dialogue. It pushes players to pay attention to the story in cases where narrative is important, and feels more natural than constant tutorial boxes. As someone who tends to get stuck easily, it is appreciated. But I can understand why in some cases it might feel overbearing.
That’s awesome that you find such dialogue genuinely useful. That’s why it’s there after all, and I find it can be a more organic alternative to looking up a guide if done well.
Some characters this fits well with, so as long as it matches their personality I'm usually accepting of it. Kratos is not the most forthcoming fellow, which is why his son constantly questioning everything makes more sense. Spiderman also has long had a habit of talking to himself, so in the games that also fits - though it started grating on me when Miles and MJ also do the same. Perhaps the designers think they need to fill dead air?
On the opposite side, this made me think back to some games like Fez or more recently I played Tunic. There is zero character dialogue in that, and no hints offered. You have to use your own senses and intelligence to understand your world, and it feels like night and day. To have chatty characters in that, even slightly, would ruin the experience, so it feels good to be trusted as a player that you can figure things out on your own.
have you ever read about the Diataxis format of documentation? i feel like its very relevany here bc you abstracted generalized principles fot tutorial "documentation" thru the gameplay loop in a tutorial :-)
I'm gonna write a whole thing responding to this from my own perspective. Great stuff!
Genuinely cannot wait to read it!
I'm with you. If done well, I don't mind character based hint (aka thinking out loud). Nathan Drake is the one protagonist that seems like a good example because he's charismatic, intelligent and is a character that naturally likes to make quips. So of course he would think out loud even if alone which may help the player sus out some puzzle or navigation.
Alternatively, Metroid Prime 4: Beyond was an example of it done completely wrong. Having Miles come over the intercom to let Samus know where she needed to go every 5 minutes was grating and honestly insulting.
Also thanks for the nod! Much appreciated!
No worries - thanks for the great article on Sea of Stars!
And I have yet to play Metroid Prime 4, but I’ve heard basically all the characters outside of Samus actively detract from the experience. Which, like, isn’t the whole appeal of Metroid meant to be how isolating it feels?
There are moments of classic Metroid in the game. And it is beautiful and fun. But yeah there were elements of the game that were either the result of the production taking so long or poor decision making is my guess.
I think it's fine as long as players have the option to diminish it. For example, I was pleasantly surprised that A Plague Tale: Requiem had a setting that would completely eliminate all banter about puzzles while you solved them. It made the game a more more enjoyable experience.
Conversely, I literally didn't finish Horizon: Forbidden West because of how constantly they made Aloy solve the puzzle for you.
"Huh, maybe I should get to that ledge."
"Looks like that block can be moved."
"Maybe I can pull that down?"
SHUT UP! lol
It turned a quirky character trait from the original (always talking to herself cause she basically grew up semi-alone) and turned it into a constant player nudge, and I feel like more and more games keep doing this without the ability to silence it.
I love that A Plague Tale gave you the option. That seems to be the ideal compromise for stuff like this. Because, when done gratuitously like in your Horizon experience, it can literally be a make or break.
Golden Abyss was a masterpiece. I can't believe PlayStation fumbled the Vita so bad. That is still the best handheld console. It was so good. Touch sensing in the back, light sensing through camera, so much cool stuff they did.
Yeah, I think most of the gimmicks work really well with Uncharted’s normal mechanics. Any game that includes gyro aiming is a huge plus in my books. Most of the touch screen stuff is cool - I randomly really like going up and down rope using the rear touch.
Makes you wonder what a God of War or Infamous could’ve looked like on the Vita.
I personally don't mind this kind of dialogue. It pushes players to pay attention to the story in cases where narrative is important, and feels more natural than constant tutorial boxes. As someone who tends to get stuck easily, it is appreciated. But I can understand why in some cases it might feel overbearing.
That’s awesome that you find such dialogue genuinely useful. That’s why it’s there after all, and I find it can be a more organic alternative to looking up a guide if done well.
Some characters this fits well with, so as long as it matches their personality I'm usually accepting of it. Kratos is not the most forthcoming fellow, which is why his son constantly questioning everything makes more sense. Spiderman also has long had a habit of talking to himself, so in the games that also fits - though it started grating on me when Miles and MJ also do the same. Perhaps the designers think they need to fill dead air?
On the opposite side, this made me think back to some games like Fez or more recently I played Tunic. There is zero character dialogue in that, and no hints offered. You have to use your own senses and intelligence to understand your world, and it feels like night and day. To have chatty characters in that, even slightly, would ruin the experience, so it feels good to be trusted as a player that you can figure things out on your own.
Another great read to ponder over!
have you ever read about the Diataxis format of documentation? i feel like its very relevany here bc you abstracted generalized principles fot tutorial "documentation" thru the gameplay loop in a tutorial :-)